الأحد، 26 مارس 2017

الخمول الجنسي

Message To Men - Check For A Varicocele - (Lowers Libido Causes ED)

  1. Hi Everyone :)
    So, this is actually my first post on the forum. I've been following and learning lots from here for a few months now, and I've been wanting to share this information for a while as I think it could enlighten people about something which is fairly common and appears to cause pretty sinister symptoms.

    I am a 20 year old male and have a left sided grade 3 varicocele. For those who have no idea what a varicocele is ( I didn't ) then google is probably your best answer for an in depth explanation, but basically it is just enlarged veins of the scrotum, which feel like a bag of worms. The blood in these tortuous veins becomes stagnated leading to diminished blood flow to the scrotum and a subsequent potential cascade of problems that stem from poor testicular function. Varicocele is the Number 1 cause of male infertility, and I can tell you from my own personal experience that the symptoms that have been most pronounced are erectile dysfunction + desensitised, very low/zero libido, brain fog and general low mood and tiredness.

    I believe I acquired the varicocele during adolescents where I also had gynecomastia, a condition believed to be caused by estrogen. So it came as no surprise when I found this study which found the condition was significantly correlated with varicocele: Relationship of adolescent gynecomastia with varicocele and somatometric parameters: a cross-sectional study in 6200 healthy boys. - PubMed - NCBI

    This study shows that patients with varicocele had significantly lower levels of DHT, which probably explains some of the libido problems, and the distinct lack of facial hair I have:
    Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone seminal plasma levels in varicocele patients. - PubMed - NCBI

    At 20 these conditions are obviously unusually, especially considering my low prolactin level of 3 ng/ml. It seems despite all dietary and lifestyle interventions, nothing seems to turn these symptoms into remission. It also seems to have increased my TSH. Thyroid hormones made in testicles maybe? o_O

    The main reason I wanted to post this is because for many years the varicocele had only very subtle symptoms, which weren't vividly noticeable. I still had a low libido and lack of confidence but I thought this was just a 'teen' thing and that eventually it would all subside. It wasn't until it enlarged to a grade 3 early last year (able to see veins outside the scrotum) that I put 2 and 2 together.

    So for men who're not feeling 100% you may want to get checked out, and get it fixed. If anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer them.
  2. It is caused by high estrogen btw. Some people have had it reversed with topical aspirin, progesterone, or even vitamin E. But in some cases surgery is needed if the vein is really large and painful.
  3. I've had a varicocele in my left testicle since I was about 14. I'm now 29. I have lots of facial hair and body hair. I've never really suffered from ED. It used to cause me pain, but it seems less problematic now, and is also less pronounced, and more manageable. My mum has varicose veins, and in my case it's likely related to that. I do sometimes wonder to what extent it does contribute to low libido and brain fog, though.

    Can you direct me to any studies on this?
  4. @waldenpond I don't think genetically I'm meant to be hairy looking at my family. But if you look up the symptoms of finasteride, my symptoms appear to be quite similar. Have you considered having it operated on in the past?
  5. I've considered it, but it's something I've been able to manage very well, and there are times when the swelling reduces considerably. Frequent masturbation, for example, definitely makes things worse... I was preaching the benefits of cutting out masturbation long before "No Fap". I barely ever suffer pain down there anymore, but there were periods in my early twenties that were rather unpleasant. I can attest to the fact that dietary and lifestyle interventions canmake a difference.
  6. I don't think there are studies but individual reports.
    Rectal Administration Of Vitamin E For Treatment Of Degenerative Diseases

    There are other similar reports online using topical DHT, tocopherol, aspirin, etc. You can Google it.
  7. I know what you mean, masturbation definitely makes things worse. Morning wood and spontaneous erections feel like a thing of the past so I feel there is more of an need to get it operated on. Mine is not painful either other than playing sports. Eating a good diet obviously helps but I don't think I could completely reverse it, at this stage, without surgery.
  8. I have this :( Mirtazapine made all this stuff worse, hopefully its just all the extra weight I packed on, roughly 40lbs- went from 10% (confirmed by pro) to dad bod lol. I had gyno since teens but not the variocele since around that time period... I try to pretend it doesn't exist lol but I guess I've had high estrogen since puberty then.

    So did you get surgery and all your symptoms improved or what??? It seems like no matter what the high estrogen "phenotype" (gyno, variecoles, varicose veins, hair loss, etc) just won't go away even with DHT, thyroid etc.

    Would topical T3 be safer/more effective than progesterone given the region? I know I experienced negative effects down there when I was using large amounts of progesterone for overcoming TBI symptoms, I just don't entirely understand how progesterone exerts its anti-androgenic effects given what you've posted about 5-AR and the backdoor pathways, etc.

    For topical aspirin is it necessary/much better to combine with sodium or magnesium (like just mixing with some baking soda or mag bicarb in vodka for 20% ethanol)?
  9. There was a really interesting discussion about it, somewhere in the depths of the internet, a few years back, where people were claiming that it was intimately connected with tension in the pelvic floor - some even said it was caused by this - and that by doing exercises/getting therapy to reduce this tension, the varicocele could be reversed. It wasn't very scientific, but I think there's some truth to it. Doing what you can to reduce pelvic floor tension or dysfunction will probably help. It helped me.

    "(Relation between pelvic floor and varicocele) There is a MAJOR connection. The truth is that a true varicose vein in the scrotum is so highly unlikely that it's almost impossible. I've been told by several top uros and physical therapists that almost ALL so-called "varicoceles" are nothing more than congestion in the blood vessels due to muscle tension and inflammation in the abs, pelvic floor etc.

    I was diagnosed with a Stage 2 varicocele and was scheduled for surgery to correct it. My left testicle had shrunk to less than half its normal size, I had severely low testosterone levels and a sperm count of literally zero. The surgeon rescheduled my operation at the last minute, thank god. Literally that day I stumbled upon the whole CPPS thing and enrolled in physical therapy. Within one week my testicle returned to normal size and started hanging normally again. Within two weeks my testosterone levels returned to normal. Within one month my wife was pregnant.

    Get educated and understand how the blood vessels in and out of the testes actually work, where they travel etc. before putting yourself in danger with a useless operation from a lazy doctor. Doctors LOVE doing varicocele operations. It takes about 20 minutes and they get several thousand bucks from you (or your insurance company). What they don't tell you is that you'll probably be back within a year for another one. There are no valves in the veins of the scrotum, so it's pretty much impossible for a varicocele to even occur there. Your muscles are choking the blood vessels and causing them to engorge. Step on a running garden hose and the same thing will happen. Relieve the pressure and it will return to normal.


    A real varicose vein happens when the valves of that vein fail. But the veins out of the testicles don't even have these kinds of valves, so it can't even happen. There are some urologists which acknowledge a varicocele caused by pressure. Sometimes they refer to this as "Nutcracker Syndrome". There is a good reason that 99% of varicoceles happen on the left side. The blood vessels of the left testicle take a completely different path than the right, traveling through a lot of twists, turns and muscles deep into the abdomen.

    The connection with testosterone levels is quite simple, blood flow. Any body part needs adequate oxygenated blood flow to its job. Testosterone is produced when LH travels from the pituitary gland to the testes via the blood. Then the T that is produced in the testes must now travel out via blood vessels to the rest of the body. Hindering blood flow in either direction is obviously going to make it very difficult for them to do their job. It's fairly easily fixable. Get yourself to a qualified PT who specializes in pelvic issues. If that doesn't take care of it I'd be extremely surprised."

    -some guy online

  10. I know, it's an awful thing which isn't very well understood.

    No, I'm currently waiting for the subinguinal microsurgery operation, which is not a very common procedure in the U.K.

    I was offered embolisation, but the microsurgical approach appears to have the least complications and seems pretty fool proof if you get it done by someone who is experienced.

  11. Wow, I've never heard of this theory. I just find it strange how gyno and varicocele are connected. The varicocele did seem to enlarge when I was doing more heavy weight lifting (which could strain abdominals, I suppose).

    I'm aware that some varicocele operations are risky, especially the non-microsurgical approach. I appreciate your insight, it's definitely something I will look into. :)

  12. Really interesting thoughts.

    Can a PT understand this if i tell its i need a varicocele therapy?
  13. Have tried a lot of Peaty things in almost 2 years for my varicoceles but not any slight improvements yet.
  14. My coworker developed a varicocele within months of being on finasteride. No surprise there.
  15. I have seen very little hints that fixing a varicocele would make any significant changes in anyone's life. Surgery does not mean the issue is fixed long term and as haidut suggested, it seems estrogen is at play, so is too much sitting and poor posture (among other things) imo. I notice that mine comes and goes during the day, sometimes it's almost inexistent. It makes sense that pelvic floor health could play a part too.

    That makes a lot of sense.

    In the study on dht and varicoceles they talk about "DHT in the ejaculate", how relevant is DHT seminal plasma levels? @haidut
  16. @Wagner83

    I'm not so sure man. Seems from what I've read on multiple forums that quite a few people who had estrogen dominance issues, such as gyno, have these problems cured by having their varicocele fixed. I remember reading one guy who said his testosterone injections weren't having much of an effect on his muscle gains after developing a varicocele.

    I mean to me it would make sense. Hormones made in the testicles are hindered which may allow pituitary hormones to rise, possibly?

    But, I personally seem to show very little estrogenic symptoms - no gyno, lean, low prolactin level. Still zero libido though.
  17. Yeh I'd look into other things than the varicocele, but would still try to take care of it with supplements like aspirin, vitamin E (recta administration?) , I think diosmin/rutin was mentioned somewhere else, the guy had to take it for 3 months , stop and do it a few more times before it went away "for good". Pycnogenol is something that really helped me with veins, I'm a bit annoyed by the research showing NO boosting properties, not sure if this is geared towards selling the product to the mass or true.
  18. Yeah, I read about those on anabolic men.com before :) I've haven't tried any of those things, but I'm sort of desperate and feel like they're hit or miss. Maybe the NO effect has some helpful effects in the context of a varicocele.

    I definitely believe the varicocele is 100% responsible for the libido issues, however. This article is interesting:https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ije/2011/916380/

    I think something which has such a profoundly negative effect on male fertility (especially over the long run), and given vitamin E's role in enhancing fertility, a varicocele would surely impact erections and sex drive in a man.
  19. As I understand it NO is defnitely negative for varicosed veins and would worsen them. Pycnogenol is the best otc supplement for vein health, but still it may boost NO production when the body needs to produce it. An other member suggested physicial therapy that may be an interesting route.
  20. I would suggest a course of high dose serrapeptase. This is a systemic enzyme that is known to help cure varicose veins by cleaning out dead cells around failing valves. I looked into whether or not testicular veins have valves and it seems it depends on the person. Some do and some don't though many theorize it is the failure of the venous valves in the abdomen that leads to testicular varicocele. I know first hand that serrapeptase dramatically shrunk my Mother's varicose veins and there is a lot of anecdotal reports of that on the web. These are also due to valve failure. So it may be worth a shot. As a bonus serrapeptase will also clean out any arterial sclerosis and excess fibrin so I would suggest its use for everyone.
  21. Have you not considered surgery? Does it cause you any issues?

    Pycnogenol definitely sounds like something worth trying. :) Yeah I'm going to contact one while I'm waiting for my operation, see if they can help.
  22. I suggest you look for stories of people who did surgery, pretty sure some had their varicocele come back just the same or did not notice any benefit . You could try to view the problem as a clue towards some a broader dysfunction (physical , hormonal etc..), or maybe not..
    As for surgery I'm not sure there's only one option (embolization?).
  23. No need for surgery in my case but I just know and can feel that my vascular system is weak for my age.

    Pycnogenol is supposed to raise nitric oxide if I remember well?
  24. I have and have had a varicocele since I could start forming memories.

    It seems my family just has weak veins in general - both grandfathers had aneurysms.

    It definitely looks weird but I've come to accept it and have forgotten about it.

    I wonder how fertile I am at this point. Throughout middle school I would take extremely hot baths for hours at a time daily. Plus getting hit numerous times down there. Damn hahah.

    Aspirin (325mg) + pregnenolone (>100mg) + mixed tocopherols (300mg) + retinol (10,000 IU) + vitamin K2 (5mg) + coconut oil (all mixed together) did little for my varicocele, or at least I haven't noticed big change.

    Although I have a strong strong suspicion that most of them are underdosed or straight up fake.

    I will never undergo surgery for it.

  25. Any reason why you won't get it operated on? The microsurgery operation appears to be highly successful and has very positive effects on male fertility. Gonadal health is a significant contributor to metabolic health in general.

    Varicocelectomy: microsurgical subinguinal technique is the treatment of choice
  26. This is precisely what I was discussing before, however it benefits vein health the most out of all otc supplements (opposite to NO boost), it should also help lung function (same), is anti inflammatory (same) and apparently it reduces NO if it is overproduced, so I think the marketing for its NO boosting properties is mainly due to the trend of NO boosters (citrulline, viagra etc..) . Of course I could be wrong.

    Improvements of Venous Tone with Pycnogenol in Chronic Venous Insufficiency: An Ex Vivo Study on Venous Segments
    Edit: Received a mail from Ray who thinks pycnogenol should be protectiveagainst high NO. I tried citrulline for a few days and could barely breathe so I guess that would be one way to check its effects on NO.
  27. I had tried it in the past for several without any improvements, probably just worsening.
  28. Makes sense, I had it while on fin, had surgery (laparoscopic) and it's gone now though but caused me pain which I why I had the surgery. I also had inguinal hernia surgery from lifting as well while on fin. I still have a few inch horizontal scar. The increase in estrogen from fin probably weakened my veins and ligaments....

    I wish I knew this back then.

    To the OP, topical K2 may even work too or topical DHEA which would convert directly on the skin to DHT from the 5AR in the skin.
  29. @TubZy Thanks man! Yeah I'm gonna try the topical route and the physiotherapy route for now while I'm waiting for surgery. :)
  30. I noticed the opposite, but may try it again out of curiosity. I don't know if it was protective or negative for breathing , which would be an other clue towards NO boosting or NO controlling, I know that l-citrulline taken for days felt life threatening. Did you mean several months or days?
  31. Hello waldenpond, can you give us some idea what sort of physical therapy you did to achieve such amazing results?

    Also, great thread. Thank you everyone for contributing.
  32. That part wasn't me. I was quoting someone who went by the moniker of "obitoo" on various internet forums a while ago. There's probably a fair bit of exaggeration in his language, but I think the basic point is true.
  33. Ah thanks, that gives me something to go and check out.
  34. Hey man, I've had issues with what I think was a minor/moderate case of varicocele and what helped me out was Horse Chestnut. I don't even get the testicular pain anymore and the swelling is down, permanently. It's been weeks since I've taken it as well. There's anecdotes online of people curing their varicoceles with Horse Chestnut as well if you're looking for more evidence. I've tried Biorutin was well but that didn't help me, the horse chestnut definitely did. You can get some Vitamin shoppe brand chestnut for relatively cheap too. If you try it, you should begin to see positive results within a week.
  35. I went through the surgery in 2010. Both sides were grade 3. I had no pain, but I thought it was the reason for my lowering sex drive. 2 weeks after my surgery my sex drive went up very high. I was happy about it. After about 3 months, I developed new varicose veins, so the surgery was useless since it doesn't correct the root cause.
  36. Hi guys, to make a very long story short, I started taking steroids some months ago for the first time of my life(sustanon 250 & dianabol) took no PCT (I know fk me). Anyways after 3 months cycle I stopped and started working alot and started taking alot of Amphetamines, I would have many problems while I was high.

    I wouldn't pass stools while I was taking and I would usually be awake for 2-4 days, and I was taking amphetamine like every week or two and I always had majure urinating problems and my balls were always tucked in my belly. It all began when i went with an ambulance to the ER becauseI felt like my balls went way up my stomach and had alot of pain in them like they were to explode and lower stomach pain, I had testicular exam and all good and was just sent home, I kept taking amphetamine and went to the ER like 5 times within a month caused by many different problems including the pelvic floor. I got sober and everything was fine.

    Then I started to get some serious gyno symptoms on my right pec,i went to doctor to get blood exam and it came out as little prolactin, but I have really minor visible gyno.

    Then one day after all this I got a really strange numb feeling in my left testicle and my testicle would sometimes go up in the stomach especially after ejaculation followed by frequent urination and lower back pain, I thought it was prostate problems so I went once again to doctor and he examined me and came out I have chronic prostate enlargement, I got antibiotics and stuff.

    But after the doctor I still felt it was something else, it was and is really uncomfortable to sit, as if something in my scrotum was trying to explode through the skin and I have weird numb feeling in my left testicle, so I checked my scrotum and there is something huge under my ballsack, so I googled and figured I have varicocele, pressure in my scrotum and strange uncomfortable feeling in my left testicle and like something is pinched under it, feels pretty numb and if I touch it, i feel cold feeling on the testicle and if wind goes on it also.

    The pain/uncomfortness is bareable but I just realised this today and I have worries, like if my left testicle is dead or something, my libido is fine and I get a major hard on, but I've been telling my girlfriend I need to chill because of the gyno, I feel like it gets worse the more often I ejaculate.

    It feels good putting my story here and all replies would be really helpful, I am 20 years old, I'm a gym rat and I tend to eat healthy food only.

    Thank you for reading this - some guy from Iceland
  37. @x-ray peat Hey man! No, I've never read it but I'd be interested to know what it recommends. :) Keep us posted! I might get it too.
  38. Guys I really recommend that you stop masturbating for a while and eat a lot of garlic and ginger and turmeric, I've been eating loads of it for 2 days and my swelling disappeared ?! I had HUGE veinsack under my balls but now I can't find it anymore, give it a try hope it helps.
  39. I happened on this thread by chance. I had a very pronounced varicocele present early in life (~ 13 or 14 years old). I had the varicocelectomy when I was 17, a reoccurrence shortly thereafter, and varicocele embolisation when I was 18 (30 now). I've always suspected my varicocele could be responsible for low libido and ED, and it was a recent series of labs that established high estrogen and brought me to this forum. I wish I had this resource when I was being advised that putting metal coils into my body was the only option. In my case, I don't know that surgery actually helped to correct these issues...

  40. Hey man! Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind that varicocele can contribute to libido and erectile dysfunction problems, and probably a whole host of other less noticeable symptoms.

    I'm intrigued, when you say varicocelectomy are you referring to the microsurgical approach or just the general approach? Also, do the coils cause you any discomfort? I know that there are people who've had many issues with them and had them successfully removed.

    This video is interesting... 

    If you're squeamish you might not want to watch the microsurgery operation but the opening few minutes are quite interesting.
  41. I've been researching this condition pretty extensively and Chinese Medicine believe that a varicocele is a result of kidney malfunction. Would you know anything about this @tyw ?
  42. I believe your video is describing the varicolectomy surgery I had. I do notice a bit of discomfort in my upper abdomen sometimes, especially when I exercise. I never had issues with low libido or ED prior to surgery, but I was also 17. My GI issues seem to have worsened post-surgery though. Its common sense, but I suspect that the coils interfere with systemic circulation.
    It's interesting that PT could help with these issues, and it doesn't surprise me at all that PT for the pelvic floor can also relieve digestive issues. Do you have more info about coil removal? All I know is what I read on www.againstvaricoceleembolization.org

  43. Same here, that's where I'd also read about it. I think as long as you find a good urologist, they should be able to help you.
  44. So I am halfway through this book I mentioned and I think before anyone gets surgery you should buy the book. He really gives a lot of practical advice on how to heal varicoceles and has 100% positive reviews.
    some tips
    keep your balls cool, get proper underwear
    use cold compress to alleviate pain
    sleep w/0 bottoms
    sleep with pillow under hips to help drainage
    do inversions to drain blood away 3x per day
    dont sit for too long
    dont smoke, drink alcohol etc
    dont excessively masturbate
    dont masterbate too hard, use oil
    dont masterbate sitting down
    massage balls every once in a while
    squat when you poop
    avoid constipation
    lots more in there
  45. Thanks for the info man. Some good, easy to apply recommendations. :) Let us know what the rest of the book suggests.
  46. ======================
    1. Hello,

      I am a 27 year old male with test levels in the upper 400s, TSH over 3, hair loss, low libido, and hard time gaining muscle and losing fat, even though I work out 3x a week. It is difficult for me to know where to begin because all of these are related and want to get to the root of the problem instead of addressing individual symptoms.

      I am 6'2, 185 lbs. My diet is pretty meat/carb heavy. A few servings of fruits and veggies everyday with whey protein.

      Before these supplements I tried everything... Zinc, Magnesium, Creatine, multi-vitamins, gluten free diet, no beer/alcohol. All to no avail.

      All of my symptoms started when I was 20. I woke up one day to having an insanely itchy scalp with dandruff and hair loss. Libido tanked after and had trouble with ED ever since.

      My current supplements:
      • estroban - daily
      • gonadin - mostly daily
      • 5-DHP - 5 drops AM
      • pansterone - 2 drops AM
      • tyromix - not taking at the moment
      • taurine - 7g/day
      • niacinimide - 1500mg before bed
      I have not seen much improvement. Does anyone have advice on what I am doing wrong or what can change in my protocol? Thank you!
    2. Your TSH hasn't gone down at all over the years?
    3. Running on stress hormones, puts you in the catabolic state. Anabolic state would be something like having adequate glycogen stores, stable blood sugar, burning sugar and low stress hormones, for bones and muscle growth.

      RP does not recommend muscle meat, whey and starch as core staples. Methionine, cysteine, tryptophan and phosphate will be too high, pushing the stress cycle.

      Ideas: extreme low unsaturated fat intake, more calcium, more canning salt, dairy protein/carbs/fat, raw carrot away from meals, frequent feeding/drinking, ripe/cooked fruit, juices, liver/shellfish

      1500mg is a huge amount of B3, RP suggest 100mg 2 or 3 times per day. If you do not have adequate liver sugar, B3 can backfire and increase stress hormones.

      How is your sleep, 6-8hrs deep uninterrupted? Cold hands and feet? What is your morning oral temp? What is your pulse like before and after meals?
    4. Try to test prolactin and estradiol sensitive
    5. estroban - good.
      5-dhp - I don't know.
      pansterone - it's okay
      tyromix - can help
      taurine - 7 grams - any side effects from that dose ?
      niacinamide - that's good.

      For a topical, perhaps try progesterone cream.
      onasnatural makes the best

      Activated Vitamin B-1 cocarboxylase can help digest sugars similar to niacinamide
    6. Hello

      New member here but have some input:

      You didn't mention Finasteride/Propecia... obviously stay away from those even if you're looking to reduce hair loss... but many times guys take a multi-vitamin specifically for males that contain Saw Palmetto , which can have a similar affect on sex drive... so ensure that ingredient isn't in anything you're taking...

      Estrogen is needed for men's sex drive... perhaps the pansterone is lowering it too much?? Still, I'm leaning towards using it myself for 5ar activity so I'd investigate there

      Having read the faq on here, I knew certain seed extracts like pumpkin seed inhibit DHT but didn't know why seeds did until now... ensure you have none of those snuck into your diet... if you're hair is falling out in exact circle patches, that's alopecia...

      Additionally, to take things back to the workout and diet, you list 3 times a week... I'm assuming something like every other day... a sign of over training is lack of appetite and inability to sleep... all pointing to your CNS not properly recovering in between workouts... other stress related signals like loss of libido can occur there too... furthermore, what's your caloric total and meal times? When trying to add weight, eating frequent large meals, like 6 individual 600 calorie meals per day (protein, carb, fat) can help regulate a metabolism and fuel your body with the nutrients of repair...

      And then, in the gym, are you doing low reps with heavy weight or high reps light weight? Are you hitting failure or stopping at 10 every time? Cardio habits??

      Hope to help...
    7. The first time I tested my thyroid, it was above 2 a couple years ago. When I tested it 6 months ago, it was 3.05. It has risen every time.
      Thank you for the suggestions. I will cut down on B3. Sleep is good, not great. Usually get 8 hours but wake up a couple times a night. I may need a new thermometer but temp usually reads in 97 range and pulse is low upon waking, 55-60 bpm. When taking 1-2 drops tyromix, pulse hovers in 80s.
      I tested prolactin a few months ago and it came back at 12. Not optimal, but not terribly high I believe. The doc didn't want to test estrogen though.
      The taurine doesn't have a noticeable effect at any dosage. Might help with shedding. Definitely helps mellow me out after drinking coffee.
      I use 5-dhp( 5AR reduced progesterone) topically (not on scalp), would this be advisable?
    8. B6 and zinc may enhance taurine

      It would simply be quite difficult to rub it into the scalp because it's a thick oil
    9. I don't really like topical stuff on scalp. I have been losing hair for 7 years and still have a lot, its just becoming more visible in the front. It would be easier if I shaved my head but haven't done so in a while. I will try taking zinc with taurine today.

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